Taser International's own "Dr." Mark (not an MD) Kroll meddling in taser death investigations

"Dr." Mark Kroll (not an M.D.) "...has helped law enforcement with many similar cases around the country and asked me to send an arrest-related death evidence outline that he developed,” Carns wrote. "While not necessarily relevant to this case, I have also attached an excited delirium check list he developed and published with several excited delirium experts." [LINK] Sleazy.

Liverpool, UK - 22-year-old man hit with taser, suffers cardiac arrest

Hey Kroll, you've been pretty quiet lately. [LINK]

Tracing false logic to the likely source

In Grimolfson's case, "a few minutes passed, not seconds, from the time of last Taser use to time of unconsciousness; therefore, the Taser use is not a relevant factor," the judge wrote.

This claim can probably be traced back to "Dr." (not an MD last time I checked) and Taser International insider Mark Kroll. Kroll has been wrong multiple times on the subject of taser safety. His infamous "Cardiac Safety" ping-pong paper webpage was silently withdrawn from the Taser International website. Kroll consistently denied that tasers could cause death, now it's an established fact that tasers can and do cause and contribute to death. The Judge's statement is not supportable except by reference to "expert" speculation by those that have been wrong many times before. Many taser associated deaths have followed the pattern of: tasered, difficulty breathing, lack of response, and death several minutes after the taser hit. The likely mechanism is arythmia, but it's not my place to make uninformed speculation.

Mental health crisis, taser, cardiac arrest

A man is suing Clackamas County for $3 million after a deputy shocked him with a Taser and he went into cardiac arrest. On Dec. 2, 2008, Paul Streeter ran through the parking lot at Clackamas Town Center Mall, pounding on the windows of a mall security car and threatening the guard.... Deputies were already on their way because Streeter’s father had called 911 saying his son had mental health issues and he was off his medication. When Deputy Steve Shelly arrived, he ordered Streeter to get on the ground but he would not comply. Shelly then used the Taser, according to the Sheriff's Office.Deputies put Streeter in handcuffs but realized he stopped breathing. They called paramedics and revived him. [LINK]

Tasers and cardiac arrest.

Taser International and their minion Mark W. Kroll assured us repeatedly that tasers have a huge 15-to-1 safety margin and that there's no way that a taser could ever affect the heart.

But there sure are a statistical surplus of "difficulty breathing" [cardiac effects] happening right after being tasered.

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Telling someone to get on the ground when they're off their medication... Might as well toss them a Rubic's Cube and demand that they solve it.

Taser Quote of the Week by Columbia police Chief Ken Burton

Columbia police Chief Ken Burton:

"When people are under the influence, the extended shock has shown to be a problem." [LINK]

"...problem..."

Without putting words into Chief Burton's mouth, I'm fairly certain that, by the word "problem", he means that people die. As in "DEAD".

What else could he be hinting at?

Herein lies a problem.

Taser International, while recommending minimal use, simultaneously and strenuously denies that repeated taser hits are in anyway dangerous. See their claim quoted here [LINK].

Their chief minion, "Dr." Mark Kroll (advisor, Board of Directors, head of their so-called "Medical Safety [cover-up?] Board"), has claimed that taser hits are similar to ping pong (table tennis) balls in that even endless electro-torture would be "safe"; "If one ping-pong ball hit to the head does not kill you, 1,000 probably cannot either." [LINK].

So, in addition to the "problem" mention by Chief Burton (taser deaths), there's also the little problem that the stun gun salesmen are fork-tongue scum that repeatedly deny the potential lethality of their product (while burying legal admissions deep within the Legal Warnings). Every honest and informed observer knows full-well that tasers are perfectly capable of causing or contributing to death. And yet the OEM denies it.

It's pure insanity to allow this discrepancy to remain unresolved. And that means holding the OEM to account for their deceptive marketing. You cannot 'agree to disagree', see [LINK].

Taser International is defending *itself* in Winnfield

Realize this. Taser International is not in Winnfield to defend Scott Nugent. I'm confident that the management of Taser International couldn't possibly care less about the legal fate of ex-bad-cop Scott What's-his-face?.

Make no mistake, Taser International is in this because they're fighting for their own survival.

See the Truth ... Not Tasers blog [LINK] for a good description of what Taser International is doing in Winnfield.  See extract:

I couldn't MAKE THIS STUFF UP if I tried!!!

One of today's "expert witnesses" was Dr. Jeffrey Ho. According to the publication, Mother Jones, Taser International pays Dr. Ho to conduct studies and testify — he got $70,000 during one 12-month stretch (see Mother Jones - Taser's Delirium Defense). According to sources, Dr. Ho got a ride to the Canadian Braidwood Inquiry, where he admitted he is not a heart specialist, in a Taser jet. Ho also admitted some of his research was co-authored by a former Taser employee who has no medical expertise. Ho is apparently a shareholder in Taser International and some of his research is funded by the company.

According to the news report that follows, the expertise of today's other "expert witness", Dr. Charles Wetli, is sudden death caused by "sickle cell trait". In an article called "Is excited delirium killing coked-up, stun-gunned Miamians?" Dr. Wetli was described as the world's leading expert on excited delirium. Another article said that Wetli is paid to testify as an expert on the "excited delirium" syndrome in "four or five" cases each year, often to defend the police ... Wetli, who said he does not fully understand how excited delirium causes death, said he has cited it "once or twice a year," mostly in police custody deaths. So, in the case of Barron Pikes, it seems Dr. Wetli avoided the very controversial "excited delirium" defense in favour of the "sickle cell trait" defense. WTF??

And then we have the rest of the merry band of Taser-friendlies who have had input into this trial:

Jerry Glas, one of the attorneys defending former Winnfield Police Officer Scott Nugent against manSLAUGHTER, represents Taser International.

"Expert witness" Mark Kroll, Taser shareholder, serves on the corporate board of Taser and has been paid more than $800,000 over the past three years as he has been used as a witness in cases involving Tasers

"Expert witness" Hugh Calkins is a paid consultant for TASER International and sits on one of their Boards.

Taser International is apparently paying for their appearance at the trial.

Renowned New York City medical examiner Michael Baden testified that Pikes, 21, died from cardiac arrest suffered from the repeated Taser shocks. "He was healthy. He was Tasered. He died," Baden testified. "There was no other reason for his death."

Taser International pulling out all the stops in Nugent Taser-death trial

Jerry Glas, one of the attorneys defending former Winnfield Police Officer Scott Nugent against manSLAUGHTER, represents Taser International.

"Expert witness" Mark Kroll, Taser shareholder, serves on the corporate board of Taser and has been paid more than $800,000 over the past three years as he has been used as a witness in cases involving Tasers

"Expert witness" Hugh Calkins is a paid consultant for TASER International and sits on one of their Boards.

Taser International is apparently paying for their appearance at the trial. [TNT]

Let's be perfectly clear.

They're not there to save Nugent. I'm sure they couldn't care less about Nugent.

They're there to save themselves.

The prosecution said Kroll is biased.

Kroll biased? [LINK]

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And in other news...

Members of ursus arctos demonstrate a preference to defecate in areas dominated by perennial woody plants.

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Established Fact: Tasers are capable of causing or contributing to death.

Via any of several taser-death mechanisms.

Even with healthy adults. But especially with those that are more vulnerable.

Kroll actually testifies in Nugent's Taser-Death trial

Question:

I wonder what Taser International sponsored moron they're going to install in the witness box? [LINK]

Wow. "Dr." Mark Kroll.

"Bioelectricity expert [?] in Winnfield manslaughter trial says Taser did not cause suspect's death" [LINK]

Kroll reportedly said, "There's zero negative effect on the body." This claim is obviously not correct. Even Taser International acknowledges numerous risks.

If the opposing lawyer fails to make Kroll cry like a baby on the witness stand, then I'll be very disappointed. It won't be for lack of documented openings.

Ask him why even Taser International disagrees with his over-the-top claims?

Ask him why cardiac capture in 1 of just 8 subjects tested with a newer, presumably safer, taser device?

Taser's lawyer Jerry Glas tries to discredit Dr. Michael Baden

Winnfield, LA - A well known forensic pathologist testified that the repeated electric shocks that ex-cop Scott Nugent administered to a handcuffed man caused his death. Prosecutors called Dr. Michael Baden as an expert witness in the death of Baron Pikes. ... Baden told jurors that Pikes did not have any medical conditions that would have killed him, and he did not find any other reason a healthy man would die so suddenly. ... [LINK]

I hate it when they use the word "administer" in relation to electro-torture. It's a medical term. And medics will have taken an oath to 'First, do no harm.' Taser International does not operate under such ethical rules.

On cross examination, defense attorney Jerry Glas worked to discredit Baden, asking him about his qualifications as an expert on electricity and on the taser.

I wonder what Taser International sponsored moron they're going to install in the witness box? People like Kroll and Ho are pretty much damaged goods. Any informed lawyer could utterly destroy either one of those two clowns.

--

Here's some related reading material:

How many amps in a police taser? [LINK]

See also [LINK].

Shades of Deception [LINK]

Training Bulletin 1 May 2010 [LINK]

Taser International micro-shifting safety claims [LINK]

HRS votes down Taser International [LINK]

Taser International is so screwed [LINK]

Family of Michael Patrick Jacobs Jr., who was tasered to death, sues Taser International

Family of Man in Taser Death Suing Manufacturer
Manufacturer maintains its device is safe

The family of a man who died after police used a Taser to subdue him is suing the device's manufacturer and distributor for negligence. An officer shocked Michael Patrick Jacobs Jr., 24, for 49 seconds and then again for 5 seconds in April 2009 in front of his parents' home during a disturbance call. His death was ruled a homicide. [LINK]

The crux of this case is that Taser International is not likely to have any reliable and trustworthy evidence that demonstrates that tasers are safe when applied for extended durations. In spite of this, the 'Brain Trust' that runs Taser International designed the tasers with hubris-triggers that permit, and even encourage, taser deployments of unlimited duration.

The plaintiffs lawyers are likely to slap the defense witlesses about the head with a copy of "Dr." Mark W. Kroll's (the 'W' apparently stands for "We are not medical experts" [LINK]) infamous 'Ping Pong' paper [must read!!] where he boldly predicted that 'if one taser hit don't kill ya, then a thousand taser hits ain't gonna kill ya neither.'

This so-called paper was PROMINENTLY DISPLAYED on Taser International's webpage for I-have-no-idea how many years under the heading "CARDIAC SAFETY". And then it was QUIETLY pulled. Keyword QUIETLY. That quiet slinking away is itself key evidence. The false paper was not formally withdrawn, it was simply deleted.

Another detail worth noting is that Taser International has reportedly finally agreed to a PERF request to modify the design of the taser so that endless Moth+Light deployments are not encouraged by the flawed design of the weapon's infinite duration taser-to-death trigger.

Taser International spokespuppet Steven Tuttle, in a liability-enhancing denial, actually said that the company ... stands by independent, peer-reviewed medical studies that show the device to be generally safe and effective.

They have no studies that reliably prove that extended duration taser deployments are "safe". In fact, they have had plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Everyone noticed that extended taser deployments were correlated with death - NIJ. Prof. Savard. Common sense. Everyone.

Taser International's understatement of the decade

Steve Tuttle, TASER's vice-president of communication. "We are not medical experts..." [DEAD LINK][NEW LINK]

Well Steve. I think I can speak for all humanity:

We're very happy to see that you clots finally figured that out.

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PS: Would I be able to request an autographed copy of "Dr." Mark W. Kroll's infamous "ping pong" paper that was, for I don't know how many years, prominently published on the Taser International website under the heading "CARDIAC SAFETY"?

I've got a softcopy on file, but it sure would be nice to have an autographed copy on hand (as a warning to future generations).

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Oh, remind me. Was it "65 lbs" that was the lower weight limit for the medically-safe electro-shock tasering of naughty children? I seem to recall that it was 65 lbs that was judged by Taser International and/or their minions to be the medically-safe lower weight limit. Was it 65 pounds? Can you remind us?

REPOST: Taser International is so screwed

This (copied below) was first posted [LINK] on 13 March 2010.

You can't accuse me of having an inaccurate post title; Taser International caved and settled for about $3M [LINK].

They were also fined for employing slime-ball (and obviously clumsy) delaying tactics in this same case. [LINK]

Worth highlighting this case once in a while.

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A good friend of the Excited-Delirium blog sent me a copy of the "DECLARATION OF DOUGLAS P. ZIPES, M.D., IN OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANTS’ MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT", dated February 19, 2009.

This document is in relation to the case BUTLER v. TASER INTERNATIONAL, INC. et al.

It's a 36-page document that defies summarization.

Let's start with the C.V. of Dr. Zipes:

• BA cum laude Dartmouth College 1961
• M.D. cum laude Harvard Medical School 1964
• Distinguished Professor, Indiana University School of Medicine 1994
• Director of the Division of Cardiology Krannert Institute of Cardiology, 1995-2004
• Published over 800 medical articles and 21 textbooks
• Co-editor Cardiology Electrophysiology, From Cell to Bedside (2009, 5th ed)
• Co-editor Braunwald’s Heart Disease, (2008, 8h ed)
• Co-author Clinical Arrhythmology and Electrophysiology (2008)
• Past president of the Association of University Cardiologists and Cardiac Electrophysiology Society
• Founding member (1980) & President (1989-1990) Heart Rhythm Society (HRS)
• American Board of Internal Medicine (ABIM) Chair of the Clinical
• Cardiac Electrophysiology Test Committee
• Co-Chair of the ACC/AHA/ European Society of Cardiology (ESC)/HRS Ventricular Arrhythmia and Sudden Cardiac Death Guideline Committee
• etc. (...it just goes on and on from there...)

Let's just say that qualifications of Dr. Zipes whistled past the qualifications of "Dr." Mark W. Kroll, (not a real doctor, an electrical engineer) about ten or eleven lines back.

Dr. Zipes:

I became concerned that TASER was misrepresenting that there are no cardiac risks posed by its ECDs. Accordingly, I delivered a PowerPoint presentation on those risks at the May 2009 Heart Rhythm Society (HRS) meeting in Boston. ... At the end of my presentation, Mark W. Kroll, Ph.D., an electrical engineer and the head of the TASER Scientific [sic] and Medical Advisory Board, was in the audience [!] and spoke in opposition to my remarks. Further, I told the president of TASER, Rick Smith, who was also in the audience [!], that TASER needed to issue a warning that its products might cause cardiac effects. We had sharp disagreements, and I left more concerned than ever about the undisclosed cardiac dangers of ECDs. ...

After the debate finished, the moderator polled the audience, and found that more than 90 percent of the audience supported my side of the debate that TASER ECD shocks could produce ventricular fibrillation. (TASER issued warnings to avoid chest shocks about four months later.) ...

Funny how Taser International sends all their high priced help [Pinky and The Brain] to attend meetings of the Heart Rhythm Society (HRS) while maintaining the ludicrous position that tasers have no significant effect on heart rhythm. Tasers probably don't affect the orbits of the planets, but I assume that Taser International doesn't send their unwashed hired help to attend meetings of the International Astronomical Union (IAU) to make sure... 

Anyway...

Dr. Zipes states his opinion:

...that, to a reasonable degree of medical certainty, the electrical impulses from a device manufactured by defendant TASER International, Inc., (TASER) caused Steven Butler’s cardiac arrest of October 7, 2006.

and

...that TASER’s representations of safety made to the involved police agency and officer prior to this incident were not correct, that the risk of causing cardiac arrest was well known prior to this incident, and that the risk could have been minimized had TASER issued proper warnings and training materials rather than false and exaggerated representations of cardiac safety. Finally, I address the inadequacies of TASER’s pre-release testing, and therefore the recklessness with which it marketed products for law enforcement officials to use on human beings.

The trial (Case No. CV 161436) resumes 22 March 2010.

Note - I don't have Internet links to this document at this time.

Minneapolis police define tasers as potentially lethal

Tasers, long considered to be "essentially safe", in spite of the contrary evidence indicated by the occasional deaths, are now recognized by the Minneapolis police as potentially lethal. See [LINK].

The police will be hosting a banquet for local resident, Dr. Mark W. Kroll. They'll be serving him a large plate of crow. Kroll needs to eat some crow.

They are still monitoring the blog

"Do these reports make my corporate liability look fat?"

United States arrived from login2.radian6.com on "www.Excited-Delirium.com: Blog hit of the Week: Kroll receives my memo". -- 2 hour ago

Radian6 is an Internet firm that is hired by other companies to track social media. [LINK]

Heisenberg would be so proud. [LINK]

David Cornelius Smith, 28, has been declared legally brain-dead

David Cornelius Smith: tasered, cardiac arrest, presumably suffered massive anoxic brain injury. [LINK]

UPDATE: Mr. Smith has died. [LINK]

My deepest condolences to the family and friends.


But it seems like a familiar pattern...

Steven Butler: tasered, cardiac arrest, suffered anoxic brain injury. He survives, but with permanent brain injury. Taser International is sued and settles for $2.85 million. They tried to keep the settlement quiet, but the judge was having none of that nonsense.
[LINK]

Free advice:

Ammunition for the forth-coming legal battle should include Taser International's own "Dr." Mark W. Kroll, a Director of Taser International. His infamous "Cardiac Safety" Ping Pong paper was featured prominently on Taser International's webpage, but was silently yanked some months ago.

A massive lawsuit against Taser International is not about the money. It's about making them pay for their persistent and false claims over the years that tasers could not possibly affect the heart.

Amusing blog hit of the week

Ventura, California arrived from google.com on "www.Excited-Delirium.com: Who is "Dr." Mark W. Kroll" by searching for dr. Mark W. Kroll Expert witness.
20 minutes ago

"Expert witness"

Blog hit of the Week: Kroll receives my memo

Mound, Minnesota [Kroll's ISP location, as far as I know] arrived from email01.secureserver.net [direct hit from an email server used by Taser International, probably] on "www.Excited-Delirium.com: A call for IEEE Spectrum to retract Kroll's incorrect claims about taser safety". - about 24 hours ago.

Hey Kroll, why did Taser International yank your infamous "Cardiac Safety" webpage article? Was it because it was WRONG and DANGEROUSLY MISLEADING? Hey, I'm just asking.

I'm also just asking IEEE Spectrum to consider doing roughly the same thing to your infamous IEEE Spectrum article as Taser International did to your "Cardiac Safety".

Actually I'd like IEEE Spectrum to leave the article on-line, but prominently marked as false and linked to a formal retraction with corrected details. That way, rather than just disappear, it could serve as a warning to future generations of the dangers of hubris.

A call for IEEE Spectrum to retract Kroll's incorrect claims about taser safety

How a Taser Works
The stun gun shocks without killing--but how safe is it? Two experts take a look

IEEE Spectrum magazine - December 2007 [LINK]

By Mark W. Kroll [LINK][LINK], Patrick Tchou

[technical errors highlighted]

...about 1 percent of what's needed to cause the heart of the typical male to fibrillate. So the Taser's average current is far from the danger zone for healthy human hearts. ...a Taser's 100-us pulses are such a small fraction of the heart's chronaxie... ...you wind up with a pretty large margin of safety.

Compare and contrast the above wildly-inaccurate claims with what was released on May 1st, 2010:

Taser International admits that tasers can kill [LINK]


The basic technical mistakes are:

1) Assuming that "average" waveform currents are applicable when in fact the correct measurement would be 'effective'. Nobody knows exactly what the effective current is, but it seems likely to be in the range of about 30 to 50 mA considering the effects. The RMS current is about 150 mA, that's clearly not right either (a bit too high). But the "average" of about 2mA is also clearly not the correct measure (duh-obviously too low, considering the effects). See [LINK].See also [LINK].

2) Forgetting Fourier and failing to consider that the DC pulse after the arc phase is low frequency and thus those spectral components are continuous 100% duty cycle [LINK]. So the incorrectly-assumed chronaxie safety factor disappears for all low frequency spectral components. Even mentioning "chronaxie" without addressing the DC pulse is an obvious oversight. Again, nobody knows exactly what percentage of the current is low frequency and what percentage is high frequency. But this blogger was (as far as I know) the first to point out that the "experts" at Taser International appear to have slept through the Fourier class during EE 101.

These errors are really quite elementary.

And these errors perfectly explain the apparent discrepancy between what Kroll et al erroneously believed (that tasers were cardiac safe by a wide margin), and the cold hard fact that they aren't as safe as was claimed.

I don't mind dumb errors, but when combined with hubris... 

*** An URGENT call to IEEE Spectrum ***

This above referenced article, especially the section written by Dr. Mark Kroll where he argued that tasers are essentially cardiac-safe, should be formally retracted, or somehow marked as "taser safety claims now known to be incorrect".

Taser International, in their latest training bulletin released 1 May 2010 [LINK], has abandoned their long-standing position that tasers are essentially inherently safe. They now formally acknowledge that tasers can significantly affect the heart if a dart happens to land too close. They also now acknowledge that tasers may cause acidosis. And they acknowledge that these are potentially lethal impacts.

The position taken by Kroll in this article was wrong at the time, and has now been contradicted by the position recently adopted by Taser International themselves. Again, see [LINK].

Because of the human-safety aspect to those false claims of taser safety, it is essential that this article be formally acknowledged as being wrong in those areas where Kroll argued (incorrectly) that tasers are essentially cardiac-safe.

This situation represents an important test for the editors and management of IEEE Spectrum to demonstrate the basic ethics that are such an important part of engineering where it intersects with human safety.

Safety claims now revealed to have been incorrect MUST be formally corrected.

Tasers "may effect heart rhythm and rate" and "cardiac capture"

What's it all mean? Is it dangerous?

The term "cardiac capture" means that the taser has randomly connected itself to the subject such that it is trying to pace the heart.

The common X26 taser pulses at 19 times per SECOND.

This would imply that the heart is a quivering mass trying, and failing, to beat at over 1000 beats per minute.

Imagine if this continued for, say, more than about 10 to 15 seconds.

Dangerous? Gee, do ya think?

Remember that "Dr." Mark Kroll persistently claimed that the taser would not affect the heart. He wrote an article actually published in IEEE Spectrum. He wrote an article about "Cardiac Safety" that was prominently published on Taser International's website (recently deleted without comment). And many more... All of these argued that tasers are "cardiac safe".

Keep in mind that this "Dr." (of EE, not medicine) headed Taser International's Medical Safety Panel.

But now even Taser International, in their latest bulletin (May 2010) admits that tasers CAN affect the heart. Especially if a dart happens to land on the wrong location on the chest.

In my personal opinion, the liability is not just civil ($), but seems to reach the level of criminal liability. It's just my opinion. But professional and corporate negligence at this level, blind to the obvious evidence that surrounds them, negligence that is associated with an unknown number of deaths (hundreds?) deserves more than a slap on the wrist.

But these are just my personal opinions.